I am posting here because I love DCBC and am saddened to see what is happening there now. When I first started coming to DCBC, I was welcomed warmly by a congregation that was so dynamic and full of the Spirit of God. Now all I see is a church divided!
I no longer see the church growing, but in fact I am seeing signs that it is dying. Attendance at the Wednesday night prayer meeting is dwindling and the Summer Friday night youth program has been cancelled.
It seems like things have started to go downhill since James Yi started. Does anyone else share my feelings?
571 comments:
1 – 200 of 571 Newer› Newest»Yes,DCBC is in a big trouble.
對的,DCBC 己經因 "伊" 分裂了,教會亂成一團,"伊"的臭名已從Dallas傅到世界各地,羞辱主名.
今天造成教會分裂的根源在那裡？是長老嗎？長老在教會都超過幾十年了？是歐陽師母嗎？歐陽師母在教會也有8，9 年了。真正的源頭是伊牧師。請大家告訴我，他好在那裡，你們這麼喜歡他，失去一半的弟兄姊妹也再所不息，每個靈魂不是同等價值嗎？
請問姊妹會何時開始？我非常期待與大家再相聚？這不是主任牧師該安排的嗎？
I agree the church is divided. It is clear from what he has done that he does not care about the church or the congregations . He does not have either the christian love in his heart, or the integrity of a pastor in his mind. I wonder what will the church looks like, if the congregation follows his example and teaching---telling lies all the time?
Does anyone know how he got his pastor-ship,by cheating?
ooop!
I made a "honest mistake" I should have typed "...what will the church look like...".
伊慶荔把牧師當是一份職業,DCBC的主任牧師的職位,是他second career的三級跳.肥了他,快要葬送DCBC.
神絕對不會讓此事發生的.
DCBC的姊妹會己成歷史名詞,伊慶荔是容不下其他神職同工的,除非百分之百順從他的
好懷念以前DCBC和樂融融大家一起同工事奉的氣氛..願神憐憫我們所愛的教會
謝謝主任牧師讓我體會到 ＂無法禱告＂的痛苦。
How ridiculous the letter from pastoral staff (some of them are Yi’s relatives)! The letter was dated 05-24-2011 well before Yi’s resume issue was discovered. It did not mention Yi’s resume issue at all. I could image what consequence would be when Yi asked his pastoral stuff’s support if they refused to offer the supporting: no contract renewal, no salary raise, no ordaining, or making troubles from them (In Chinese: forcing them to wear small shoes).
The issue with Yi is not about his qualification as a senior pastor but because he does not fit our church. He makes our church divided. And he does not want to accept the consequence of lying in his resume – resignation. Would you want this kind of spiritual leader to teach your children and grandchildren about honesty and righteousness?
看到教會今日的光景,真是難以相信,一個人居然把教會弄得upside down.他的功夫真太大了,臉皮也夠厚了,長老請他走路,他不動聲色,還鼓動被他蒙騙的弟兄姊妹大力支持他.
We need to focus on his resume, not to mix with anything else. His resume not only has one "careless mistake", there are multiple mistakes. And the rest of resume is full of manipulations and exaggerations. BTW, I am not going name who "he" is. Please don't "對號入坐". Because according to one of his supporter pastor's "preaching", 1) This is not your business 2) If I don't name who "he" is , then this is not slander. :)
A fraud is a fraud. For Mr. Yi's resume fraud to come to our church to be the head of the leader and control our whole house, that's very serious crime. Pray God be with DCBC.
伊慶荔 lie on his resume to get our vote. We can forgive the mistake, but he should take the consequence to leave our church since he is no longer qualified per DCBC hiring requirement.
Unbelievable!
How can people forget the name of the school he/she attended?
I am an old woman but still can remember the name of the Elementary School I attended 50 years ago.
Is he suffering from SHORT TERM MEMORY LOSS???
It is not a honest mistake.. It is a lie... Whatver his excuse, he should resign because he already lost his credibility.
I call for his resignation!!!!!
當他在台上說＂神原諒了我＂這是不是另一個謊言？凡從他口中出來的每一句話，都被加上？？？信用破產的人能領導教會嗎？挺他的人要三思。
看了the letter from pastoral staff 覺得真可悲. 教會的牧師們了為保饭碗簽署. The pastrol staff who sign the from can keep their job and get 按立. Those who did not sign the form get trouble. Those who sign the form 把牧師當是一份職業. Did they ever remember they should work for God, not Mr. Yi
我不懂為何他始終沒能給大家一個＂誠實＂的交代，永遠只是含糊的說我不知道為何這樣寫或是我不記得我有這樣說.我懂得聖經經文或許沒他多，但是我知道聖經教導我們：是，就說是；不是，就說不是；若再多說，就是出於那惡者，我也是這樣教導我的孩子，為何身為 神的僕人,卻無法做到? 他有想過他的行為已經讓很多弟兄姊妹"跌倒"了,以後該怎樣跟 神交代? 當大家為了他的事吵的不可開交,傷心難過的時候,他還能若無其事的過著他想要的日子,繼續藐視長老執事會給他的建議?當他在台上講道時,他不會覺得這是否合乎 神的心意嗎？看來我們的家DCBC 生病了,而且病的不輕...就像癌細胞一樣,繼續蔓延著．長老們想找"醫生"來幫忙找出病源並醫治卻苦無適當的人選.就算好不容易找到了人，治好了病，也會因為這樣大傷元氣，再也回不去了．唯有 神大能的手能親自醫治,我們一定要繼續儆醒禱告並耐心等候
I think the date of letter from pastoral staffs was earlier than we know his resume. Also, the staffs are signed for supporting his change to DCBC. There is nothing to do with his lie about resume. I don't think the staffs support his lie about resume. Also, we need make thing simple and clear, we are against his dishonest about his resume. This is a BIG DEAL. This show he lie to all member in DCBC. He even lie to God although God know everything. Whoever deceive God will get punishment.
I think DCBC elders and deacon board were too nice to Yi. When they found Yi's resume issue, they could fire him immediately. As long as there is any false statement in Yi's resume, it was a cheating/fraud according to USA law. His 3 year contract with DCBC is no long valid. Although our by-law did not specify how to handle resume fraud, we could fire him immediately based on USA law, which would not cause so much damages to our church, as most companies would do.
DCBC is in big trouble and the church is dividing not only because of this man, but the followers that are going along down with him. They are ignorant because they do not know who he really is, and apparently, he "honest-mistakenly" doesn't know who he is either. Actions must be made for him to resign because there is no use if the church is dividing and how he does not care.
真難過 DCBC 來到這種情況,羞辱主名.當伊看到我們的弟兄和姊妹因為他去爭論，他沒有介意，一點兒也不在乎。他不是一個牧師，他根本沒有愛。伊的信仰和我們不一樣, 他信救贖預定論, 伊逼迫有年資的教牧, 伊的欺騙. 他根本有沒有我們的神? 我們沒有什麼可以做，只有懇求神, 禱告神。希望神的榮耀不要離開DCBC。讓神去處理, 神的真理和公義一定存在. 願神憐憫我們的DCBC教會.
DCBC今日有難了,昨晚9/23/2011一些執事告訴書記不打印報告事項在崇拜程表上。原因為何？因為他們想防止會眾信發出。請大家立即因為這事祈禱。求神憐憫我們的教會.
DCBC is sick. Mr. Yi is a cancer to DCBC. Cancer can spread and has 4 stages: stage 1, 2, 3 and 4. We missed good opportunity of removing it in stage 1. Now it is in stage 2. If we let it spread to stage 4, it is not treatable. That would be very, very sad. God help us. God bless DCBC.
God bless DCBC .
各位不要太傷心。 往好處想！
最近國內不是很流行說：『我的爸爸是某某人』。只要把這張王牌一祭起來、什麼事都大化小、小化無。
我們很可能也可以依樣畫葫蘆，說：『我的牧師是某某人。』 一切就都順了。 但我們是反對他的、可能不行。 得找個順服的人去試一試。
Does "neutral space" mean differing views are welcomed for discussion? I see a few deleted posts by the author and all other posts (in english) reflect the same sentiment. If anyone here would like to know the differing views, let me know....I'll explain it.
Author said
Two deleted post was "honest mistake" .
Why is it necessary to use sarcasm? To use sarcasm is counter productive to an adult discussion if the intention is to dialogue with mutual respect and to gain understanding. Again, not sure if people on this board are serious about a dialogue or if it's just a venue to share common perspectives. If the people of DCBC want prevent division, then that starts with having a heart of reconciliation and a willingness to understand before making conclusions. Is this want people in this discussion want? If not there is no purpose in discussing rev.Yi or anything about dcbc.
I just have two questions for Exousia, 1)Is Yi's resume cheating? 2) Did Yi really confess his cheating? If your answer is no, then we have different common ground. I think we should not mix everything together, just make situation simple, Yi's resume is fraud, if he can't set honest example, how can we know his preaching is God's word or Yi's word.
非常抱歉, 我的手快速地刪除2個項目. 由于我想要增加有些字，所以我刪除舊的;
然后再repost在9/24-9 ：02 & 9/24-9 ：04. 我對此極為抱歉。很對不起.
請大家原諒.
Dear Exousia, if you think "Honest mistake" is "sarcasm", tell me how you feel when Yi said his resume is "Honest mistake". Sincere?
Still not sure by the responses if the intent is to argue/debate or discuss/understand. The key to resolving a healthy disagreement is to understand the reasoning of the person you disagree with.
If unity of DCBC is what people on this blog are looking for, I can say for at least a good percentage of people at DCBC aren't necessarily opposed to Rev. Yi resigning or being removed. I can say for myself and for a number of others, Rev. Yi staying or going is not what is the divisive issue. He could be removed and we could all be okay with that. If you want to "win" the entire church and restore unity then perhaps listen to understand what is really important to the "other side".
To answer the questions in the other responses: 1) No, I personally don't believe it to be cheating, but I do believe there are understandable reasons why others believe it is. 2) No, he didn't confess to cheating, he confessed to making a mistake. 3) How do I feel when Rev. Yi, says "honest mistake". Well I don't feel like it's sarcasm. He's making a statement I can either choose to believe or not. I don't feel like it's sarcasm in the way it was used earlier because sarcasm ends a mature discussion. It's like trying to reason with someone and they respond like a child using sarcasm. There's no room for real discussion. So to answer your question, the way I feel about the sarcastic "honest mistake" statement is not the same way I feel about Rev. Yi statement of an honest mistake. I don't feel much about Rev. Yi's statement as it is simply his statement of what he believes.
To exousia,
Any Adult should know the differences between cheating and making mistake. Cheating is something you know you shouldn't do it but you do it for your benifit. Making a mistake could be somthing you did it and you don't know it was wrong. Yi's was cheating by writing a accredited Tholoical Seminary (Central Baptist Theological Seminary) instead of the institute he graduate from Forth Baptist Bible Institute. These are 2 totally different name. If he just have a spelling mistake, I will believe that was a "mistake". Can I put on my resume that I graduate from UTD because I attend ESL classes over there? Can I say I have GPA 4.0 but infact I only have 3.6? If someone cheat on his exam in class and got caught by you, will you think it is a mistake and still give him the score he got? When I got hire from a company, the HR will check all the schools you attend and previous jobs you worked. If they find out any fraud, they will fire you immediatly. This is a common sense. So, isn't that church pastor should be honest? A lot of people like to use mistake as a excuse for cheating. I am so sad because even pastor using the same excuse to cover his fraud.
My friend Exousia, 1) I am firmly believe he is cheating on his resume from his presentation last few weeks behavior. Only people who lie and need to another lie to cover up. Also, we should not mix with any other thing. I agree, DCBD has problems (although I did not know any problem because I am just a small role in DCBC, maybe you can enlighten me later), we should solve this resume issue first and then face another problem to make DCBC stornger in the Holy Spirit. This task should accomplish by sincere spiritual leader not by dishonest people. 2) I am sad to tell you, no matter remove or not, there is no "WIN" situation. There is no "victory party". God's temple DCBC is damaged, our people are hurt. We just need to pray God's grace to rescue DCBC by HIS way. We all hurt by this situation because we love DCBC so much. Not like someone sat and watched DCBC divided and claim only need 1/2 of supporters.
笑死人的愚蠢,這麼明顯的錯誤,還分辨不出是說謊,這麼容易被你們牧師騙了.其他事更容易騙了
Please open another subject, I am tired of hearing about the resume issue.
Let's talk about how DCBC can survive after he leaves.
Okay I believe I have my answer as to the nature/purpose of this forum. Thanks for allowing me to explore this area. I was just looking for a place to engage thought and discussion, and to find a healthy way to gain and provide some understanding. However, by the responses it doesn't seem like there is an interest or willingness to listen or understand differing perspectives, which is fine. There has to be forums for people to process and discuss shared and common beliefs. I just understand this isn't the forum for someone like me to be in.
FYI, I do believe unity and a "win" can happen with or without Rev. Yi. Rev. Yi is not what unites or divides, only Jesus Christ and His word can do that. How can DCBC survive and heal from this? Everyone start thinking/talking about His word and submit ourselves to Scripture. Anything else causes us to depend on our own ways and opinions. Be united on the Word, and it will join true followers of Christ together and divide out those who are not. There is a biblical way for us to be if Rev. Yi stays. There is a biblical way for us to be if he is removed. Either way, the path that Christ demands of us is narrow and we are obligated as professing believers to discover that path and to follow it. Dallas Chinese Bible Church is suffering because it's clear now that we are a church that doesn't understand or depend on the Scriptures very well. We all love God and His church and do what we believe is best for the church, but what is "best" is determined by man's wisdom and opinion....we are in the time of the Book of Judges. The current state of our church is deeply saddening to me, yet it's become more clear that our church has been broken and divided for years if not decades now. May God's will be done on this church, even if it means His wrath and discipline if that is what it takes to get us to focus on Him and His word once again.
Thanks again for the opportunity to explore here.
exousia, I agree with you to a certain extent on the problems we're facing,... what is "best" is now determined by man's wisdom and opinion.... I'd also like to understand the reasoning behind your stand. May I ask why you don't believe pastor Yi to be cheating? Is it because he said so?
Rev. Denny Ma, DCBC's 1st Senior Pastor will be here to lead the Revival Meeting tomorrow night - Thurs. 9/29 at 7:30pm. I sure will benefit from this meeting. Let's try our best to come and listen to him.
I personally am not convinced that the discrepencies on his resume were "honest mistakes" based on the following:
1). As a previous blogger has mentioned, his resume listed he got a diploma from Central Baptist Theological Seminary (CBTS) whereas he actually attended the Fourth Baptist Bible Institute. Even my elementary school-age kid asked me how that could have happened. My kid said,"if I'm in a rush and make mistakes in my homework, I would only mispell some words or miss out some letters. There is something wrong here."
2). He listed 6 years additional coursework from CBTS (yrs. unlisted). He misled people as if he did yrs. of post-graduate-level training. But in reality, he did a little more than few classes towards completion of a degree.
3). His resume states that from 2001-2003 he was Chinese pastor at Tri-City Chinese Christian Church in California. The church name is wrong, that church is actually in Canada. The true name is Tri-City Chinese Baptist Church. (pastor Yi was ordained in this church, and he couldn't get the church name right!?)
4). He listed & claimed over the last congregational meeting he was Chairman of the Elder-Deacon Board at Twin City Chinese Christian Church in Minnesota. But recently, the elder there has confirmed that the church has no Elder-Deacon Board. Their elder and deacon board are 2 separate governing bodies.
5). This resume is to apply for a Senior Pastor position to serve the Lord, our Almighty King, to lead a church with a total of more than 600 attendants in Sunday worships. It's not a kid's homework paper where they let the teacher correct their mistakes. A faithful servant who loves the Lord should take it more seriously. It's too hard to believe that so many discrepencies here are all mistakes. And these mistakes coincidentally raise his qualifications higher. Within the past 8 yrs., he has served 3 churches before DCBC, and each one was left divided (anyone, please correct me if I'm wrong). He should know his resume well.
6) Pastor Yi agreed with DCBC's doctrines before he came on board our church. But thereafter, his doctrine has deviated & proclaimed to Calvinism & Lordship of Salvation that completely go against DCBC's fundamental belief. Sad to say we DO NOT have the same belief!
If you need to know more, please go talk to the elders.
The misrepresentations on resume is just the tip of the iceberg. Every time he appeared in congregational meeting, there's more lies on top of previous lies and that scares me. Our Lord expects a higher standard of honesty & integrity from a believer, least to say a Senior Pastor. He seems to care more about in preserving his position than church unity.
I agree "I said"'s statement, but I want to mention we should focus on his resume cheating, this is not just "tip of iceberg". This show his dishonest personality and disgrace to God.
“I”…..thank you for asking me why and what I think. Simple words but they show genuine interest in understanding and that means a great deal to me. Because of that, I will make a concerted effort to explain my reasoning and address your points.
As I understand your points, the primary issue of concern is not so much Rev. Yi’s resume, but what his resume reflects on him as a person and his qualification to be a pastor. The discrepancies you’ve mentioned would go to show he has a deceptive heart and therefore is disqualified because his behavior past and present is unfitting for a pastor, let alone any Christian leader. I agree with this principle, meaning if a leader is found guilty sin and is unrepentant, he should be removed. If he is an Elder, he should be rebuked and disciplined in front of the entire church to be made an example of in accordance with what the Scriptures demand of us. (1 Tim 5:20).
I believe we differ on two fundamental points:
1) I don’t see these discrepancies motivated by deception and therefore believe that, while it may be quite sloppy on Rev. Yi’s part, it is not sin.
2) At the end of the day, I’m not all that concerned with whether or not Rev. Yi stays, is removed, or resigns. What is more important to me is how we have handled this process, or more specifically how many of our leaders have failed to handle this process in a biblical and god honoring manner. In my opinion, the means do not justify the ends and many of our members/leaders have disqualified themselves in this process.
Point #1: Reasons why I don’t believe the differences in the resume to be deception
A. If Rev. Yi was trying to be deceptive then he would have to be motivated by the need to over-inflate his value to DCBC (in order to impress or “prove his qualification”. The differences don’t really inflate his value to me. It’s not like I see “CBTS” and think “Oh that’s so much better than Forth Baptist”. I don’t think putting “California” impresses me more or makes me think he’s more qualified than if he were to put “Canada”. Being the Chairman of the elder AND deacon board doesn’t impress me any more than being the Chair of the Deacon Board, because it’s the same here at DCBC. Elders attend the Deacon board meeting. Phil Koay chairs it and for the most part has authority in that board that the Elders can’t do much about….they simply advise and observe.
B. It’s hard to judge the intentions of a person’s heart, unless you get to know him. None of us have actually worked with the Senior Pastor, so the testimony of those who have worked with him is important to me. I’ve not spoken to anyone on the staff that believes Rev. Yi to be a man of ill character. Most are all impressed with him and respect him still (and yes I’ve spoken with 7 of them). That means a lot to me. I’ll tend to believe the word of godly pastors that lead us than someone who hasn’t worked with Rev. Yi and isn’t ordained/trained for the ministry.
C. The Search Committee was the first point of contact with Rev. Yi from our church. At no point was Rev. Yi given the criteria for DCBC’s Senior Pastor position, so he wouldn’t know what to mislead or inflate on. The committee knew full well Rev. Yi didn’t have a seminary degree and waived almost all the “guidelines” we had for Senior Pastor for Rev. Yi case. In fact, I would say Rev. Yi was pushed through by the committee and approved by the board with great urgency. Rev. Yi wouldn’t have been motivated to impress us by deceiving anyone on his resume. He didn’t have to impress, he was given the seal of approval from the committee from the start, particularly the leaders of the committee. Phil Koay and Edward Lee were responsible for verifying the information given to them. If it were truly important to them they would have investigated it then. But it seems it wasn’t that important then. They wanted him as the next Senior Pastor despite his resume. Ironically it’s these people who want him out now, while those who were initially uncertain of Rev. Yi and grilled him in the interview process are now supportive of him.
D. As far as his doctrine and qualifications, again the committee and board members knew from the start he never went to a seminary. The pastoral staff knew before he came that he had significantly less “theological training” than any of them. Those advocating for him in the committee (Phil Koay and Edward Lee) stated that his attractiveness as a candidate wasn’t his theological education but his executive and administrative experience at a major corporation. Everyone had a chance to interview him and ask him about his doctrinal believes and theological stance. Did he deceive here? No I don’t believe he did. I see no alteration in his doctrinal beliefs. Speak with the pastors and I’m sure they will tell you as well, while they may not agree with all his decisions, they see no error in his doctrine or theology. In my interactions and debates with Rev. Yi on doctrine and issues, I would say he’s more biblically sound than most of the staff, which for me is saying a lot. FYI, a large portion if not a solid majority of DCBC (and certainly most if not all the pastoral staff) are Calvinist. It is a fundamental belief of DCBC and all the seminaries that train the pastors of our church. That is why the staff supports Rev. Yi’s doctrinal stance. Lordship salvation is a fun topic to debate, but most people don’t understand the nuances to it. That issue, in and of itself, requires a discussion to fully understand the theological reasoning and implications.
I’ll proceed to point #2 after a break. I have to eat dinner and clean the house…..
I am a messenger and looking for a
Pastor position at DCBC.
My qualifications are as follows:
1.) Diploma from 3rd Baptist Bible Institute in April 1, 1999,
2.) My God send me to Dallas and
forgive all my sins forever,
3.) I can work 24 hours 7 days each week and you don't need to pay me,
4.) Specialized in fixing divided
church member. How I can do this ?
Simon says " hire me first ".
看了长老们写的信，实在是使我看见了真假基督徒的区别。长老们太仁慈了。 伊庆荔不但在学历上骗了人、并且在其它方面也不像个基督徒。欧阳师母在的时候、他把欧阳师母的职责减少，然后向执事会提出、她是否还有神职人员的资格？你知道为什么吗？因为他要删除她神职人员的Housing Allowance. 他把罗牧师变成差传牧师、但停止了三福、新生命营、阻扰了短宣工作(后因大家反对、并为了拉拢部份会友及团契而改口)、及福音大会。 如果他不走、过二年罗牧师也得走。因为“不称职”。但我们在达福地区及北美的福音工作也就完了。 教会不会再成长。这已经可以从他以前分裂后所牧养的三个教会的成长情况知道。
我现在可以预言、如果教会分裂、他在的那个教会、他一定会要求 1.)终身职；2.)百分之一百的Housing Allowance (这是不合法的要求)。
听说有些支持他的会友已经开始安排新教会的事宜。比如谁做长老、谁做执事等。因此如果你是支持他的、并且他以前暗示过你可以坐什么职位、而目前还没接到通知，请快跟他打听一下。不过要先想一下、当初他是答应“提名”还是“内定”！这可大有学问的。
如果你到现在还认为他是神所膏的、我们不能反对或请他辞职。那么请告诉大家、他在那裹被膏的？Tri-City Chinese Christina Church或Tri-City Chinese Baptist Church? 一个人如果连自己的出生地都不敢认、别说受膏为牧师，我觉得连他的“呼召”都有问题。或许我们也应请教他一下、为什么他离开了他“受膏之地”？
有人说对神所膏的人不敬、会受罚，因而害怕。但如果你知道“对”而不去做，或是“不对”而去做、神会原谅你吗？大家都知道国语C组有很多会友被他误导、而大力支持他。你知道最近这些会友家裹都遇到了什么事？
至于反对他的、不要怕他成功之后你要怎么办？如果他带了一些人离开、包括牧者，我们还是可以活下去。弟兄姐妹、你有没有想到在过去几十年中、DCBC所培养出来的牧者有多少？以前在我们教会牧过会的真牧者又有多少？他们就在达拉斯、休斯敦，他们在清楚我们的遭遇后、一定会帮我们的。最重要的是上帝决不会放下祂的教会不管。我们大家就安心祷告、尽我们当一个会友的本份、在投票的时候、投下你神圣的一票。
I just want to add something for what Exousia said. Before resume mistake was found out, some of the church leaders were already looking for Pastor Yi’s shortcomings. As matter of fact, one of the leaders already proclaimed: “Resume incident is nothing. We just don’t like him!” in public.
As for the Lordship salvation accusation, if we think just because Pastor Yi once said in the Sunday worship that we must turn 180 degree from the sin and turn to God is extreme Lordship salvation, is cult, then maybe we need to stop EE (三福) training program in our church immediately. Because according to EE international the first booklet page 58
No 6:
If the listener is not sincere, then you have to emphasize repentance and the Christ is the Lord.
No. 7:
Repentance means to have a new life.
The other thing most saddened me is some people are making false rumors around the church. Maybe his or her motivation is for the church, but I don't think God would honor or need his/her help.
This is aimed towards September 28, 2011 7:33 PM.
Okay. What false accusations are people saying about your pastor and what proof do we not have to back that up? Oh, please do tell. One more thing. If you can answer this: Since this Mr. Yi has come to claim himself as pastor, what good has he helped our church with? Have you seen any progress? If you are going to defend someone, you must know what he is standing for.
Plus do you even understand what Lordship of Salvation is? Please research before you post anything. From what I see, you do not understand what you are talking about.
Okay I'm back now....
Point #2: The end goal of removing Rev. Yi doesn’t justify the use of sinful behavior and conduct.
A. This is what I would say is the underlying reason is for the division in our church. Personally for me, and I would say for most of the pastoral staff and other leaders in the church, what’s concerning isn’t so much the accusations against Rev. Yi or even the attempt to remove him. It’s that in trying to do so, we’ve all seen and witnessed some very sinful and fleshly behavior from members in our church and even more disturbing from leaders in our church. In trying to disqualify Rev. Yi, many in our church have disqualified themselves. Which is why for me along with a large percentage of the church, whether or not Rev. Yi stays or goes, there is still a major problem among us. Confidence and faith has been lost in our church’s ability to lead biblically. Given what I’ve seen and heard from the Elders, from some deacons, and from some founders of this church, many of us believe at least a portion of this church’s authority is in rebellion against the Lord and the Scriptures. So while the accusation against Rev. Yi is serious and ought to be dealt with, and it is ultimately a question of his character according to what we can conclude about the resume, ironically the actual handling and response to the resume issue that we’ve witnessed raises serious questions about the character and equipping of more than a few of our leaders. I’ve seen manipulation, slander, gossip, bending of truth, lying, pure hate and malice, just simply works of the sinful flesh, all done in the name of trying to “do what is right” by removing Rev. Yi. If the leaders of this church want to remove him, that’s fine, just do it biblically and in a way that’s honoring and pleasing to God. So for me, regardless of if Rev. Yi stays or goes, there ought to be discipline or repentance from these church leaders before I can, in all good conscience before the Lord, stay at this church. This is the sentiment of I would say at least a third to half our church.
B. I understand the same can be said for those calling for Rev. Yi’s resignation.
You would probably believe that if discipline of Rev. Yi doesn’t happen, you can’t have faith that the leadership of this church is honoring to God because Rev. Yi is in sin. This is why it’s so important to cling to Scripture. People obviously have differing perspectives on who/what is sin and the only way to determine what is true and right is to filter everything through the Scriptures.
“For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates to dividing the soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” Heb 4:12
If we (DCBC) and especially our leaders can’t or won’t come together to discuss, explore, and talk about the word of God to discern our own opinions from what God says, to discern truth from error, then I believe DCBC’s future will inevitably be broken and divided.
Yeah, I agree "some people are making false rumors around the church" like "周三禱告會人數明顯增多"?. If I remember correctly, last week attendance is 25.
To the question of what good has Rev. Yi done since he arrived, I would say this. It's not until an earthquake happens do you see exactly how strong of a foundation your house has. Rev. Yi at the very least has made it clear to me and many others where we as a church have been weakest for far too long. I never realized how limited our leadership was in their understanding and application of the Scriptures until now. Now we as a church (if we are to survive this) must rise to the occasion and remember Jesus and His word.
If this conflict never happened, we might be going about business as usual at DCBC without realizing all along how far we've been from the mark. I'm at least glad that I know now.
I guess now we don't need to wait earthquake. We already saw DCBC broken apart. Who should we thank to?
I would say the past leadership of our church for failing to properly train and prepare our members and leaders today to handle times such as this in ways that are pleasing to Him.
in that case, if you didn't study and flunk your test, u'd say it is your grandparents who didn't prepare and train you well!!
No in that case I would be responsible for failing since I did not receive the teaching that was given to me. So in that example our leaders today would be responsible if our leaders of yesterday did everything they could to teach and prepare, but our leaders today were lazy and did nothing to learn and grow in wisdom/maturity.
Yet also I wouldn't blame my grandparents, but my professors and teachers bear some responsibility to discipline me and teach me if I'm lazy or unmotivated. Yet ultimately I would share in that responsibility as well. It would be a failure on my part to take the time and effort to learn. It would be a failure on my teachers, parents, and spiritual leaders part to discipline me and raise me up well. I wouldn't blame the one administering the test or the test itself.
It's all too easy to blame the state of divide in our church on Rev. Yi. We should all know better how to handle such things without loosing our witness as believers in Christ.
Any mature adult would pick up full responsibility for themselves and accept consequences if they fail. Have u finished high school? If u flunk your test, u are the primary source of responsibility. Examine yourself first.
The 3 churches prior to DCBC that Rev.Yi served were all divided under his leadership. Instead, u point fingers to past leadership for today's problem. U went way overboard, wake up.
I'll use common sense first. If those who teach and lead the next generation bear no responsibility for the leaders of tomorrow then why bother going to the best schools in the country? You go to Harvard, Yale, Dallas Seminary, etc, because they offer the best teachers. Even the most willing and able student will only go so far with only a high school education and high school teachers. It's unreasonable and naive to think we aren't formed and developed by the teachers and leaders who come before us. I do agree with you on the point that we should take responsibility though. If I know the teachers at my school aren't equipped or simply haven't been doing their job well, I should leave to go to a better school. I do have control and responsibility over that.
Now I'll use the Scriptures. Paul exhorts the Elders and leaders of the church to teach. He does so because he emphasizes the importance that the future of the church depends on discipleship of the next generation. Jesus taught his disciples. Paul discipled Timothy, John discipled Polycarp, who discipled Irenaeus. The church loses it's way when the discipleship process breaks down. Is Timothy to blame or is Paul if Timothy fails to lead the church of Ephesus? Is Timothy at fault if he fails to disciple and raise up a successor to lead the church after he's gone? Both are to blame, and yet neither, simply because the real tragedy is the church ends up broken. So are the past leaders of DCBC to blame or our leaders today? Blame isn't the point. The question was "who do we have to thank for a weak foundation"? We have our leaders from the past and today that are responsible. But instead of assigning blame and shame, the real question ought to be what can we do now as leaders? We all must rise to the occasion, confess our sins, and reaffirm our allegiance and obedience to Christ, and start learning His word with greater depth.
The reality is still this, our church has had authority problems because of lack of understanding of the Scriptures. This has been our short coming of the past. This is the price we pay now.
If you're asking if I've finished high school because you are uncertain of my logic in the educational process, I assure you I'm well educated and am trained as an educator. In the future though, please try to stick with reasoning of the points rather than trying to utilize personal criticism to make a point. It reflects poorly on our testimony as believers for that is how the world behaves and treats others.
It is a good to save our church. Jesus tell us anyone who does not enter the sheepfold by the gate but climbs in by another way is a thief and a bandit. Someone does use false resume as like as not come from the gate. He is a thief to steal our glory. I don't know why some of members to want to keep the thief in our home.
please pray for God's glory back to our home. GOD bless HIS own home.
Mr. Yi has no credentials or meet any qualifications to be a pastor at DCBC. Period.
Dear E,
When a theory is absolutely correct, there is no need to argue. When it is not, then the conflict begins. Why don’t you present your arguments to Pastor Yi and ask him to make comments on them. This way it will save you a lot of energy and time, right?
I heard that one of the Mandarin Group C’s brothers did just that. He presented all the arguments from Pastor Yi’s supporters (actually most of the arguments were from Pastor Lin’s preaching, such as,… he is ordained by God…, we should obey God’s servant…, the church has split long time ago, Pastor Yi’s resume mistake did not cause the split…, etc) and asked him to make commends on every arguments based on the following 4 questions.
1. Will the argument help unifying the church?
2. Will it help us in the future to spread God’s words in Dallas and other areas (especially to those who know the incident)?
3. Are these arguments Just and Impartial?
4. Is there any merit in these arguments?
Pastor Yi answered question one and two as “There are brothers and sisters ‘voices from their hearts’. They did not answer these two questions.” To question number three and four, “I cannot answer you at this moment. If anyone is interested in knowing the answer, please come to me. We can discuss.” However, he did not give answer to that brother, who was very interested in them, and went directly to him on that day. (You can obtain a copy of the e-mail communication from anyone in that group.)
Therefore, why don't you ask Pastor to read your comments and prepare a note in his OWN name and post it in here? That should clear all the ambiguities and save us time.
By the way, where you are there, why don't you also ask him the other questions listed in the Chinese note above you?
...thief in our home...I agree. Thanks for good comment.
I actually have spoken with Rev. Yi and the Elders at great length. So I might be able to speak to some of the arguments, however I’m not clear on what you’re asking for in some of your points. Please clarify if I misunderstood the context to your points.
1) Which argument are you referring to? Do you mean our church’s state of arguing within the church? But to answer the ultimate question, what will help to unify the church, it’s not him resigning or staying. I’ve already articulated that either outcome will have divisive impacts on DCBC. The only thing that will unify the church is if we all search the Scriptures and submit ourselves to it’s authority. This means we can argue but to do so using Scripture as the basis for our reasoning. The Word is the one and only Truth…..if we all search it, we’ll come to the same answers and find the unity God desires for us.
2) Will it help us to effectively minister God’s Word in Dallas? I would give this answer as I’ve discussed this very question with Rev. Yi, Pastors Jireh, Darrell, Andy, David and Clement/Jade. Our ability to minister effectively is determined first by our church’s maturity and understanding of God and His Word. The argument here is, given the way our church has conducted herself and treated Rev. Yi, our efforts to minister to those outside our church is crippled. How do we preach the gospel of grace and forgiveness of Christ if through the same mouth we utilize sinful means to remove a Pastor. Again, I’ve got no problem with holding him accountable and removing him as long as the process is done biblically and God honoring way. We’ve disqualified ourselves from serving God in this church.
3) These arguments start with what the Word says. That isn’t to say they might not be skewed. We all look at Scripture through the filter of our own perspective. But we start there and debate the issue biblically until we have a clearer sense of what the Scriptures are telling us. This is how mature believers grow and form their sound theology. Pastor Lin lays out these arguments based on what he sees Scripture instructing us to do. If others don’t agree or believe him to be biased, then by all means search the Scriptures and counter the argument. This forces us all to think and reason with the Scriptures rather than our own reason and judgment.
4) I’m not sure what you mean by merit. Please clarify? Perhaps I might have addressed that in my #3 response (merit of the argument is based on sound biblical reasoning).
Sorry I was having some difficulty following the essence of what you were asking for. If I didn’t address them feel free to ask again to clarify.
Again, I can’t necessarily represent Rev. Yi or anyone else on the staff or deacons. But I can say I have spent numerous hours speaking with them to understand the issues and their thoughts on the matter. I might be able to disseminate information, but of course it’s always best to just talk to anyone one of them directly.
exousia, the example I used is very simple, only 1 condition. If one didn't study & flunk the test, then one should examine him/herself, ask yourself first & don't point fingers here & there. u can add many other conditions like teacher is not good, dog is too loud so one fail the test in your example. don't make it more complicated.
It's in response to your message when DCBC is broken apart, past leadership is the first on your list to blame, igoring the primary immediate cause- the current leader. Off focus.
I can't afford the time to read/write long messages like u, I've important things to do. I strongly disagree with most of your comments here for they don't reflect the truth, turn black to white & white to black. Misleading obviously. Hereon, skip reading your comment, I'll use this time on more meaningful, productive things.
Who's to say the thief isn't the Elders, or the Deacons, or the staff, or any of the members. Who's to say those calling Rev. Yi a thief aren't the real thieves themselves? At this point there's plenty of sinful and divisive behavior going on. So much is subjective at this point. We have to be rooted in the Word if we are to see things objectively. It seems like the ultimate Thief (Satan) is having his way with our church right now.
"September 29, 2011 11:04 AM"
I'm sorry you feel that way. I believe I've spoken truth here. I've used Scripture multiple times, yet I haven't seen you refer to it once. Is the truth you're referring to the one you'd like to believe or God's Truth? Think and reason biblically and you might find your definition of truth change.
And I agree, past or current leaders responsibility isn't the point. The point was we have to do/be better now. How can you even know what better is if you don't understand and look to His word?
exousia, the original message did not named names and call anybody thief. It only refer to "Someone who uses false resume is the thief in our home". Elders/Deacons are not using false resume but you implied they are thieves. You sure are misleading people and calling white as black.
引用聖經句子就高人一等嗎？ 不是你所說的，而是你所行的•
Some people holding the Bible and speaking God's words and yet act differently in their behaviors. Are they God's true followers?
Mrs. E
I think you have much time for focusing on different ways to confuse the role of thief. If you have trust on your pastor. You can bring your question to ask him. I think he will give your good answers. Definite answer will be "let me think", "I am not sure" "I don't know" "I may be forget" "I can't answer you about myself" and "past me is not present me"
yes, haven't we all seen it at last congregational meeting - this pastor always use "I don't know", "I forget"....on things he has done or said in the past.
To exousia
Do not write a book in this blog.
The issues here are "DCBC???", "Fraut", "Cheating", "Dishonest",
"Church Trash" and "How to prosecute
criminals in church".
Glory to the Lord
So I'm not sure if this is a language barrier. Some of the responses I can't quite follow due to the english grammar, which unfortunately I wish I could speak and write in Chinese to engage in that language.
Regardless though, we're all at least trying our best to dialogue. I seem to see the same line of logic in the responses. I'm reading a lot of human reasoning and rationale. I've not seen much if any at all, Scripture or clear biblical principles. So long as that's the case it's like we're speaking two different languages.
Unless we can all agree that God's Word has ultimate authority (exousia in Greek) and not our own experiences or opinions, we will never find unity.
If I wrote "a book" on here, it's only because I've put a lot of time and thought into thinking about the issues biblically and would hope to engage others here on the same principle.
I'm starting to wonder if anyone actually knows and understands their bible here? Or if anyone believes professing to be a follower of Christ means to know and submit to His Word. It feels like there's no effort or desire to look to the Word first? This to me is so sad. We are after all suppose to be a "Bible Church".
To respond to one person's question here, if someone holds the Bible in great esteem, preaches the Word and then behave different, then he is a hypocrite and should be disciplined. Yet the first one here who feels they aren't a hypocrite themselves, let him cast the first stone. This point here is to not just "know" His Word, but to submit and obey it.
I believe I've tried my best to engage here to find common ground through Scripture, but it seems no one here shares the desire to reason through Scripture. I understand that now and will leave this forum alone.
I will part with this statement: DCBC (particularly those in this blog) will continue to experience strife and discord because you will inevitably find yourselves at odds with Scripture. Until you submit to the authority of the Word by searching it and studying it, you will find yourselves divided against your fellow brothers/sisters who respect and search the Word and ultimately against Christ himself.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’" Matt 7:21-23
Praise Lord for Rev. Ma's message.
I am so sorry that you are in the wrong church, using the wrong language. Go with yi and pj to build your own church.
I hope that everybody has attended yesterday revival meeting and received elder's letter. Rev. Ma's messages and the elder's letter should have given us answers to our questions.
It would be very sad if the church had to be divided due to an individual (even he is a senior pastor). Please pray that God let Mr. Yi make right decision about his resignation and let every DCBC member make right decision to vote in 10/09. God bless DCBC.
thank you exousia, you said what we had in our mind. We are not against rev. Yi nor support him but want to do the right thing in the Christ. We don't think it's our position to judge him, it's God's role. We just don't agree some brothers and sisters' way to handle this thing. Remember we all are going to confess what we said and did in front of god one day, including what we said on the blog.
Thanks God to send His servant Rev.Ma to give us God's message to explain the characters of the shepherd. Last night I sit in the sanctuary to hear the message, I felt the Holy Spirit to fill in my heart. Suddenly I heard the serious thunderstorm over the sky. I had sense God come back to our church. Amazing God. Amen.
Exousia, I think you are English speaker, but you are still confusing on God's faith. You should ask yourself your English pastor how to teach you about biblical knowledge for the past ten more years. This is Rev P's major responsibility. DCBC should take alert on him as good teacher for our English speaker members. God bless to give a love and wise shepherd to take care HIS sheep.
Dear lost, No, not DCBC, but your souls are in big trouble it is so childlike to blame the church, the pastor(s).... To me, an outsider, you all appear lost to Christ and you should all fall on your faces and beg for forgiveness from your heavenly father and all involved. As for this petty endeavor, the blog, it is the blog founder who has fallen prey to one of the tools of the anti-Christ (the computer, believers need to be constantly on gaurd). It is UN-christian to hide behind an anonymous blog.... If you are making these desparaging remarks the very least you should do is to validate you and your claims by identifying yourselves. Wasn't it Peter who did not identify himself when challenged in God's name? Your sin is no less thanm Peter's, also, "let those without sins cast the first stone", said Jesus Christ. "Look at dirt on other people after you have cleaned your own glasses", me. I will post anonymously, as I care not for you, for you have already fallen at my feet,.... You are already mine. SATAN (I suggest that all of you kneel at your pastors door and prey for forgiveness and "together" prey to God for a solution to your church problems)
How dare you acused somone like this? Then You yourself are in sin since you posted as ANONYMOUS. You have to mind your own business and don't make acusations in the first place.
By the way, check your spelling first before posting. PRAY IS NOT PREY....
To aim Anonymous September 30, 2011 11:49 AM: I guess just like you signed in the end, you are Satan. Go to find your own disciples somewhere else and "prey" to you.
To the anonymous outsider, please mind your own business. We don't appreciate any comments or criticisms from an "outsider."
Dear Exosia,
I am really confused on your big long novel... I don't understand what are trying to imply... you have different way to interpreting the bible.. you are conceited.. seems to me that you think you are holy than anybody else... by quoting some scripture verse... and criticizing other people English grammar... you are not the only one who can write good English in America... Try to write in Chinese so that I can make fun of you too....
Dear brothers and sister,
Please cast your vote on 10/9. Thanks.
痛心,教會內教牧因為權力'利益關係聯名欺負神忠心的僕人, 欺騙羊群.
大家齊來拔雜草, 讓我們的家乾乾淨淨.投下你神圣的一票, 千萬別心軟, 不然雜草春風吹又生.
Can someone explain to me why we still need to cast the vote? I am one of the 117 members to sign the letter. Why don't we want to reunite DCBC? Am I missing anytrhing from last night's meeting? I am confused. Please enlighten me. Thanks
According to the Chairman of the Board of Deacons, Phil Koay, and Elder Edward Lee, last night after the meeting, we are still going to vote on 10/9. Please inform and remind our brothers and sisters about this important date to cast their votes. Thanks.
Thanks for Rev. Ma's message. He point out that the only leader of the church is Jesus Christ Him-self. No one should claim as the head of the church. I think no matter if you support Yi or against him, we all should kneel down in front of God and ask for His direction for what to vote on Oct. 9's meeting. We do not kneel to any human being. We only praise and worship God, not a pastor.
I am incredibly upset that they are giving James Yi 6 choices to resolve this situation. There is 1 choice, and that is to leave! He should also repay DCBC for his salary, which he basically stole from the Church.
If he is in anyway involved at DCBC, I would be forced to leave the Church. He absolutely disgusts me and even the thought of him makes me sick!
Sadly, the damage is done at DCBC! He should be ashamed!
I don't think Mr. Yi deserves any other five options except to leave DCBC at once.
Can anyone tell your children to follow Mr. Yi's instructions or teachings? Is he a good role model for church members? Has he repented after he talked with Rev. Ma? When will he make his decision?
We all need to vote him out of DCBC because he will only lead this church to the wrong directions if he remains his position.
Yes, we can forgive Mr. Yi, however, he still needs to be RESPONSIBLE for his own behaviors.
He cheated on his resume and it indicates that he's not capable to stay in this position.
Personally, if Yi accept the choice 6, I am willing to accept he is sincere and accept his offer for the sake of DCBC reunited. But he has signed the letter for stepping down from senior pastor before voting date. Otherwise the vote should continue. The elders should stand up and tell all member about the truth either he hand in the resignation letter or not. I am tired abut Yi playing the trick. This time elders should be extra careful, we have been cheated fir ling time.
"痛心,教會內教牧因為權力'利益關係聯名欺負神忠心的僕人, 欺騙羊群". That's true. I talked with sisters and brothers tonight. Most of them did not believe Rev. Ma's last night message about the doctrine of Rev. Yi, because they said that why other 7 pastoral staffs to support his doctrine. They do not believe most of our pastoral staffs to be wrong. My heart is breaking now. I hope these 7 staffs to step out to explain what's their reasons to support to know his behavior. Who is your boss? If they say Mr. Yi is a head. Please back to school or submit your resume to find other job. God is our boss. We should work for our God, obey God not Yi. My poor disqualification shepherd, please knee down to confess your sin on this matter. Stand up to explain your wrong decision to your sheep. You are one of key to open door to free our church.
Don't betray our God. Please...
I heard that he made a counter offer. He is willing to step-down for 6 months. After that he wants to be our senior pastor again! What is he trying to do? Now I am really questioning about his calling. What a shameless person! Is this because of his lack of formal Christianity training?
Also heard that PJ has refused to tell the English congregation about the content of Rev Ma’s speech. The reason was Yi is his relative. What an excuse! How come he did not remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, when he twisted the doctrine to protect Yi and divide the Church? One more thing, the English congregation has not received the letter from the Elders, which suppose to be distributed several days ago!
Take him to th court! Take him to the court! He deserve jail
Time.
I'm so disappoint in Mr. Yi and his wife's cousin, PJ. All they care is themselves not God or our church. PJ shouldn't have made the speeches for Yi on Sunday services. PJ acted like a politician not a pastor. Don't forget that we go to church is to listen to God's word not your personal opinions. Yi and PJ have hurt and divided DCBC badly.
We all believe that the church of God should be run by God,unlike any other societies. Voting in our congregational meeting is not the sole route of resolving our problem of today,but maybe this is the only way as of now. Whether pastor Yi stays or leave, the antagonistic feeling among the members still exists. In realty,pastor Yi is the main reason of our conflict.
"Exousia" and some members (even some pastors) indicated that :
(1)leaving of previous senior pastor is the main reason of our problem today.
(2)They also stated that our church has previouly divided.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Pastors,brothers & sisters,what are you saying above make me sad. Your teaching and your behaviors make me feel uncertain.
Is the harmony in you working together & serving God at DCBC then is a fake situation?
Are pastors all wearing phony masks in teaching the congregation & serving God?
The prophet says...
For Mr. one's destiny, he is going
to either in jail or "HELL".
你這樣說不也是和他一起去hell了嗎?還是為教會及牧師禱告,神掌管一切,牧師犯罪,神會管教他的.
請到第二個subject換個話題.
According to elders' interpretations in the last deacons board meeting, the result of the voting on Oct. 9 will override the deacon board decision. That means it's final. So if you just want to express your thoughts to the elders and deacons. Please think and pray before you vote.
We must obey God rather than any human authority. God will handle everything. We are witnesses to the voting or God's plan. please pray to God to give me the wisdom to make the right decision. Don't betray God. Jesus is an only and unique leader for the church. We are the body of church. We should always remember who is my boss (Jesus Christ), not our pastors. No one will be equal and greater than Jesus.
Pray to God everyday for our church needs and direction for the future.
請大家不要被伊再騙了，投票有什麼不對，他進來不是通過會友投票的嗎？浸信會就是用投票制度，他們就違反了神掌權嗎？投票通過請他走路，應立刻停止發薪水。請大家都岀來投票。
If mrs Buhler found any mistakes in the Elder's letter to
Members she should show us the evidence and prove that
It is wrong. She should not have torn up the Elder's letters
And called them "crap＂。 This is unacceptable Church behavior. It is happened today, very sad....
I am really shocking about Ms. Buhler behavior. God help DCBC
I thought God is love...but all I see here is hate. What would Jesus do people??? All I see here is people bashing Mr. Yi. We are not judges, when you place judgement on a person, you place judgement on yourself!
Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Galatians 5:15
But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
I can't believe what I'm reading here is from all my FORMER brothers and sisters of DCBC. Shame on you all.
To AC: I agree there are quite few emotional statements, these are not appropriate. You called us "FORMER" brothers and sisters which I don't know what reason is. But did you know how many times we have been cheated by Yi? How many times we have been manipulated by Yi? Lots of us are so tired about this situation but there is nothing we can do. Pastoral staffs obey their own "human boss", not to the real boss God. Pastoral staffs use their authorities in God's temple to preaching their own words not God's word. Deacons do whatever they want to block members petition never think about who vote them to "serve people". All they told us to obey this "God's servant" whoever raise himself to almost the same height as Jesus. Have you seen this? Please remember who is eternal boss in church? If we still can call DCBC as God's temple in the future.
If one day you found out one of your most trustworthy person is cheating on you. This person did not even show his real identity. You found out this person keep cheat and cheat for his own benefit and nothing you can do. Will you find one place to express your feeling? Otherwise, the emotion will blown out like flood one day. I don't know I can stand this kind power.
To AC,
You just judged your "formal" church members.
To AC:
First of all, if you don't belong to DCBC.. you are an outsider.. so mind your own business.
How do you feel if someone cheated on you? you are not in our shoes that's why you are making this kind of comments.
you are judging us too, so you are guilty too.
I just don't understand why some people are trying to quote scripture verses to make them feel they are better than anyone else.
finally, Shame on you too.
Looks like brother Satan has done his job here at DCBC...very nice. Moving on to next target. ;)
To AC,
You quoted the God's words "Don't judge". You should do the same thing, but you were not. I agree God will judge His way. I can pray to God to seek for the God decision. I will wait ... God answer. No matter what's happen for the next. Believing God is our right choice. AC don't make angry to put yourself to the dark.
I think AC is right...why are we bashing everyone here? Why are we saying hurtful things to one another? Most of all, why can't we all show love? sigh...
What is this? Why are we attacking everyone who doesn't agree? God never taught us to seek revenge, he taught us to forgive and move on. All these judge me and judge you...stop it!
To BY,
Who is attaching who's? We are just expressing our opinion.. What do you mean by revenge... In what way why we are seeking revenge.???? No one is seeking revenge here. I don't think you know what is mean by REVENGE.
This is a discussion blog... not seeking revenge or attacking someone else.
I moved to America more than 20 years ago, the first thing that I noticed is that Americans are the most polite and courteious people. This is true in my workplace, Malls, stores, Parks etc.
I was shocked yesterday at Mrs. Buhler's behavior. Apparently, she is the exception to the rule. This shows that she is not nuetral and is siding with Yi and PJ.
We expect very church member to be very senstive and act in their best behavior during this difficult time at DCBC.
But a pastor's wife acting like this is very disgraceful to DCBC, this is kind of behavior is very inappropriate and unacceptable.
This is the place to express our opinion and emotion. It's better to release our disappointment, sad and helpless in this blog than Ms. Buhler tore Elders' letter diwn for showing her anger in DCBC. Right?
Also, forgive is not forget. We can forgive Yi's cheating and move on but Yi has to show his heart for fearing God punishment. Like Rev. Ma preaching, if anyone don't fear God anymore, this person can do anything.
It's very disappointing to hear Mrs. Buhler's behaviors at the church yesterday. Does she respect our elders and the congregation?
To BY and GC,
It is fine to share and express our feelings in this blog.
Yes! Pour out your hatred DCBC brothers and sisters! No need to show him kindness!! Yi is a liar and a cheat!!! Kick him out! Put him in jail!!
After pastor Yi left three churches he served before, he never went back to those churches.
Why? ?? Let me tell you.
(1)Milwaukee Chinese Christian Church.
He got the elder position after being member there for only one year, because he told the church that he was chairman of elder and deacon board at previous church.
(a)He objected to the retirement benefits (amount) of the founding pastor.
(b)He made a good relationship with the English minister and formed his own group of members.
(c)He was strongly against buying a church building. After the church building was purchased, the church expanded more than twice in attendees.
(d) Other elders and church members were very bothered by his egomania in serving God. After he found a new job in CA, he still didn’t agree to resign the elder’s position. Finally the church had to remove his membership. (Mrs. Yi stood up in the congregation meeting to protest the decision.)
(2) Tri-City Chinese Baptist Church
Mr. Yi was in CA a total of three years. He rose from a layman to minister and then PASTOR. He left this church less than two year after he had been ordained as a pastor.
When he got a job in CA, he went to this Chinese church. He befriended the elder pastor. Soon after he lost his job(not he Gave it up) he became the church’s minister. He again formed a very good relationship with English pastor. Somehow he made the elder pastor ordained him as a pastor soon after the elder pastor removed another young pastor. After he became the pastor, he didn’t agree with the elder pastor. He threatened the church by resigning with the English pastor.(Maybe it will happen at DCBC)
********************************
Before he went to Minnesota Mandarin Christian Church, he and another pastor (pastor Chang) looked for a church together.
Who is pastor Chang?
Pastor Chang was the pastor of the Twin City Chinese Christian Church after Rev. Huang a well-known and respected leader left. Then Pastor Chang was removed by that church. Then Pastor Chang formed the current Minnesota Mandarin Christian Church which was the church Pastor Yi served before he came to DCBC.
Pastor Chang left the US and is living in Taiwan.
Do you get an idea how Pastor Yi landed in MMCC?
*********************************
(3) Minnesota Mandarin Christian Church
This small church became even smaller after the pastorYi served there.
There are some things that I don’t want to disclose, but I want to point out that pastor Yi never went back to the church. That church is now suffering from membership loss and does not have a pastor.
Conclusions:
What I have written above is true.
An obvious continuing pattern is that Pastor Yi is very good in building his small group and he uses these people to support him. If he doesn’t think you are the kind of person he wants (e.g. people bitter with the church), you will not be recruited.
This is objective but is true.
You can use this synopsis of pastor Yi’s past to compare with the ongoing struggles at DCBC. In the two years, it is how and why DCBC is divided.
看完上篇文章，讓我有種毛骨悚然的感覺，一個是我們的弟兄姐妹太無聊或是太邪惡了，竟然去調查這麼多伊的事，還是伊太多這樣的醜事，這只是冰山的一角呢？不過我以前並沒有聽說弟兄姐妹去查何牧師的事，我想大家知道答案了吧？！唉！這算不算引狼入室呢？
Be still, and know that I am God Psalms 46-10
God is in control. Pray and cast your vote on 10/9. No matter what is the result, just trust God. This is his temple, whoever destroy it will be...
Brothers and sisters, keep yourself holy, let God show his power!
Yi連被ordained的教會都不回去,未免太奇怪了,是誰怕誰?
當初怎麼沒搞清楚,太相信人也不好.
慘了!慘了!我們英文堂不也是要被伊牧師給分化了嗎?英文牧師也要被他拉走嗎?好多可愛的年青人及小朋友怎么辦.伊牧師手段太恐佈了,祈求神可不能讓魔鬼得逞.
關閉此櫚,請到另外一欄post your comments.
拜託"原始人"再多開一櫚,比較方便
Im afraid even after Rev yi and many of the ones we disagree with leave the church we will continue justifying ourselves and blaming them the rest of our lives. How do we move on?
Don't be afraid, we have focus to God, and God will provide.
What does it mean to focus on God? What does that look like?
CSB,
Are you a Christian? if you are, you know whatis the meaning of "Focus on God"
If Christian means having placed my trust in Jesus Christ instead of myself or anything else.Then yes I believe i am Christian. But is focusing on God that easy and natural? If I am not sure how to focus on God in this time does it mean I am not Christian?
Once you become a Christian, when you do anything, you need to put God as first priority. I know it's not easy because everyone want to control.
I think I know what you are saying. I have heard it so many times. And I know many things in my head but in this sad situation, what does it mean to put God as priority? Are there steps I can follow to put God as priority? I read my Bible and I pray everyday, but I am not sure that this is putting God as priority.
I think first you have to read the Bible for yourself, not to read the Bible for other people's sake. We don't listen to sermon and read the Bible so we can point out other people's mistakes.
Some people think they are more Christian than other people,sigh..
Nice talk to you CSB. I suggest you keep away from this blog. This blog is showing some dark side of some pastor. For you, this will discourage you. This will drive you away from God. Go to a reputable church, discuss with pastor or church leader. Ask them your question and concern, they will answer your questions. God bless you.
You are right, this church is no longer a reputable church. Where should we go?
I agree with "to CSB", actually the blog showed the dark side of human hearts. Most of the comments you won't say to the brothers and sisters if you are face to face with them. But you think you can say it in the blog?
The Bible talks about the dark side of human hearts. I have read the book of Romans and some more of the New Testament. I believe that is why Jesus died. Jesus died because man have dark hearts. I have been to other churches. All of them have problems. I think if I go to another church maybe I will also get disappointed. When I read the Bible I read it for myself, I try to understand it for myself. But what does it mean to focus on God? What does it mean to be Christian?
I like the internet because I can ask questions without telling people who I am. It is easier to ask questions because I am not embarrassed. I hope you don't mind.
October 4, 2011 3:54 PM continue
Dear CSB:
When I talked about saying mean things on the blog, I didn't mean you. I think focusing on God means you don't look at other Christians' behavior because even Christian is saved by Jesus Christ, we still have human flesh and sometimes we will do things according to our flesh but not Holy Spirit. If we look at other people's behavior, we will get discouraged. You also have to discrete what is from God and what is from Satan when you listen to people's comments and see their action in today's situation. That is not judgmental, but for you to determine whom to listen to. God's word is for us to review our hearts but not to sentencing others sins that's God's job not ours. Let's all focus on God.
信靠主! 仰望神! 凡事禱告但不是順著自己的心意,乃是順著神的心意. 靜下心來不管外面多少聲音,只求聽神對我們說話.
but spiritual leaders should hold higher standard than us, they sin like us but they have to be blameless. Mr. Yi use this to criticize his fellow cleric but what is he going to do with himself? I don't want to judge but I have to be honest to myself, can I still look up on him as my spiritual leader?
Mr. 1 is a trouble maker. God know why he is the issue.
"1" is an employee by DCBC. The employer has legal right to terminate a disqualified employee.
Rev. Ma has pointed out very precisely that a non-ordinary person (eg. pastor ... etc.) can not commit "ordinary" sin. It is non ethical, will be punished by God.
On Sunday Oct 9,2011, please cast your holy vote. Let's witness the God's miracle of how to remove 1
hypocrite from His Holy House.
That's one of the root problems of our church. We treat our pastors as our employees. Actually we offered our money to God and the church is the steward to manage the money. We are not employer. The pastors are the servants of God, not of us. On Roman 14:4 "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands of falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
I know what you mean, you are
God sevant. Why don't you wait for GOD PAY CHECK.
aren't we all? :)
Yi 有沒有生命改變,有沒有順服長老.有沒有说谎.有沒有悔改. 講大話不眨眼. 真可怕, 真令人毛骨悚然. 祈禱給神,讓神完成他的工作.
沒有神的光照亮, 心肝塞肺眼? 唉! 趕快"伊顛完"
Brothers and sisters, you must be careful not to over-pursue or you might miss the target.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNVP7Cic68I
Please consider this wisdom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8FPv39boQA
Excusee me! What is real is fake...what is fake is real...real or fake we cannot tell...but i can tell what is fake...which makes me real....which makes everyone fake...maybe....
提摩太前书4：16上
你要谨慎自己和自己的教训，要在这些事上恒心；
提摩太后书3：5
有敬虔的外貌，却背了敬虔的实意；这等人你要躲开。
敬虔的外貌是指这个人很会讲属灵的话，口中感谢主前感谢主后，赞美神 前赞美神 后；所以他讲的话非常有吸引力！在讲台上很有台风，很丝丝文文讲道，不会要得罪人；大家都欢喜高兴他；可是他却背了敬虔的实意！他有满口属灵的话，但是他的做法却是很厉害的：他很会玩弄权柄！他会表面答应你，转个弯来变成他没有答应你。你问他：“你昨天答应我了！”他却回答说：“我忘记了！”这是有敬虔的外貌，却背了敬虔的实意！有些人呢，信仰是有神论，可是他们的生活却是无神论。
I fake? No you fake! Stop hiding, coward! You would do well to remember Nehemiah 7:13!
Bring it girly Cyyborg! I'll see you at DCBC! I'm going to hunt you down and karate chop you! My Karate chop is real! I'm standing outside of DCBC right now...bring it ;D! Make sure you bring me some food too...getting kind of hungry.
对不起，我犯了一个HONEST MISTAKE，应该是马有藻牧师9/29/11培灵会。
Aren't we Christians suppose to follow God's command to love one another (John 15:12) and even love our enemies (Luke 6:27)? Are the comments we made here match what we learn from the Bible?
Even if a Pastor made mistakes...is this the right way to treat him?
For those who bring accusations, do you know the matters firsthand and did you confront with the pastor directly as the Bible teaches us (Matthew 18:15-17)?
Do you have all the facts (from both sides) in your hand so you can confidently cast the first stone?
Remember we are all accountable with what we do and say...Being "Anonymous" here doesn't work with God (I guess we all know that).
This very blog shows us (and the world BTW) what's wrong with DCBC is not simply a matter of a Pastor's resume. It's US collectively (including myself).
Why don't you use some scripture to back up your karate chopping position? I bet you can't because Bible doesn't talk about karate chops.
I'm not going to bring food for you because I'm not a hypocrite like you. If you eat too much, your stomach will grow big. That's not in the Bible, it's just revelation.
You've been talking a lot of trash on this blog...sometimes in Chinese. And sometimes you talk trash against yourself, which confuses me.
But it's time I respond to you for I am the master of the squared circle. If you want to take away my championship belt, you have to beat me, this Sunday 1-2-3. But that's not gonna happen because you're going to feel the squeeze of my unbreakable submission hold, the Ultimate Liturgical Press. And as I preach powerful words into your ears, you will have no other option, YOU WILL TAP OUT!!!
牧師是神的僕人,不是教會的employee,但是牧師是應該愛教會,伊牧師卻把我們教會弄得天翻地覆,他趕傅道人,他拍一群被他蒙騙人的馬屁,他只看有錢有勢的人,一看到正直人就不敢再碰,离得遠遠的,他利用牧師的"杈"削除異己,鞏固勢力.
兩個長老從頭就沒防著他,還傻傻的讓執事會讓伊牧師有杈控制人事財務,現在伊牧師趐膀硬了,杈有了,人也被騙了,長老,長老你們吃夠苦頭,還要背黑鍋
伊牧師是身經百戰,說言荒不打草稿,"我不知道""我不記得了""我沒有說"是他的法寶,更是像犯人招供,天天在變
這個blog真好,還可保持弟兄姊妹的關係,否則我們教會更慘.
伊牧師的心不知什麼一會事,DCBC己被他搞淪亡了
As the current COO of WWE, I will settle this between Cyyborg and Mahn Tao. It's time to stop talking and settle it on the pulpit and in the ring!! We'll do a sermon smash then settle the karate chops in the squared circle. There will be a special referee. Whoever loses will have to shave their head. So, bring on the game!!!!
Wow, I didn't know this was a wrestling and gaming blog.
太不像話了,DCBC是神的教會,請不要再傷害,牧師沈淪,他耍向神交待的,你們不要也上魔鬼的當.
不要再亂來,亂講話.你知道你了解有關伊牧師好的及壞的很理性的告訴大家
我知道遠超過一半的會友要請伊牧師走,希望他趕快走,他早就該走.否則會友不再舌戰,再來就要動粗的了.
動粗?Don't you know Mrs. Buhler had already done it?
Please stop fighting one another and check your email. Mr. Yi has resigned this afternoon.
I hear pastor Yi only sent the letters to deacons and elders? Which deacon is send it out? How can I get?
Elders and deacons should have received this letter.
It is about time he resigned. I hope he doesn't get a severance package. If anything, he should repay DCBC for the salary that he stole!
There was an email sent by Mr. James Cheng regarding this resignation letter this afternoon.
No kidding?! I don't get any email about his resignation. Please post it here if it's true. This is a very serious and important thing for DCBC members. Thank you!
According to Mr. Yi's resignation letter, he will resign from DCBC as the senior pastor.
你又不是伊的心腹,怎麼淪到你先知道,己聽到流言,他又要舊戲重演,帶走英文及廣柬的教牧,當然有些忠黨人士也會跟他走,他不要
David Tang.他是很厲害的,希望大家趕快清醒.長老耍小心處理,不要又被他玩了
Who is James Chang? or Jmaes Yi?
Oh,Oh,TYPO. Who is James Cheng? His speaker?
今天我来到你们当中，来处理一些我和大家都所爱的DCBC近年来第一次发生的和全教会有关系的问题。公有公理，婆有婆理，我相信全体教会的弟兄姊妹都悲痛不已！不堪忍受的走了，留下来的都是长忍悲痛的人；离开的人有离开的原因，留下来的人有留下来的原因。离开丶留下的人都是爱教会的；爱教会的人都是爱主的人，因为教会是主耶稣基督用宝血买回来的，祂舍去祂自己的生命买赎回我们的生命！
今天我一方面很开心看见你们，另一方面我也很痛心！主耶稣将我们的生命买赎回来，所以如果我们有一个不爱主的生命，我们就是猪狗不如！一个爱教会的人是一个有成熟生命的人；不爱教会的人他的生命是对教会的事不理不睬，他们只懂得吵吵闹闹丶无理取闹丶有理取闹！主耶稣基督都给他们弄得啼笑皆非！我们看见教会最近还发生很多问题，发现很多人都失去了对教会的爱。让我们一起来祷告，求神给我们一个爱 神爱教会的心（热爱），希望每一个人都有一个舍己爱自己教会的心（热爱）。
我们一生下就进入一个家庭里面，我们对这个家庭有使命丶有责任，我们要做一个好孩子丶好儿女；我们长大了，要做一个好丈夫丶好妻子丶好爸爸丶好妈妈丶好女婿.......好东好西，好得不得了；因为我们爱自己的家！我们信主以后，我们就多了一个家庭，就是 神的家。我们有爱神家的使命；每一个人都有一个爱神家的责任，那个使命和责任都没有改变过。爱的层面多一点了，爱的对象多一点了，人多了意见就多了；但是那个爱的层面不应该减少，爱的本质不应该改变！我们要将对自己家的那种爱延伸到对教会的爱；爱自己的家如同爱神的家，我们不会也不应该伤害神的家；正如我们不会故意地伤害自己的家。我们不要在自己的家里好得不得了，在神的家里差得不得了；我们在自己家里是绵羊，在神的家里是豺狼。但愿我们DCBC每一个人都不是豺狼，每一个都是绵羊！
Who is James Cheng ?
go to Google Search, you will find out that he is a man but this guy not
James Yyyi.
I'm the only man!!! Because to be the man, you have to beat the man. I'm the man.
Mahn Tao! Your silence screams of cowardice! I went to DCBC to settle the score and you were nowhere to be found. What kind of man are you? I'll tell you what kind: Not A Man.
Nehemiah 7:13. Word Life.
It is with great joy and peace in my heart that I come to announce how I will make you tap out this Sunday.
You can't beat me in the ring so you keep talking trash. I never relinquished my belt and even if I did, it wouldn't be in your sweaty palms. I'll fight you anytime, anywhere. You want the belt? Shut your mouth and come take it. THE CHAMP IS HERE!
Son of a gun! I waited for you for two hours outside of DCBC girly Cyyborg! I only saw Rick Flair and I put Rick Flair down like DCBC put Mr. Yi down! Triple flying super low kick to the face, then I made Flair say uncle.
You're all gonna die...
好利害! 四維無的人, 居然有人盲從附和,貓狗神學中真是貓的皎皎者!
I didn't see you beat Flair because it was too insignificant a feat to be visible to my eyes. Why don't you be a real man and fight me face to face instead of on the Internet like a little girl?
Girly Cyyborg!! DOOOO YOU SMEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL......What THE MAHN TAO is cooking??!!!
I got a can of whoopBooty for you!! I Just took down the Undertaker, McMan, Hulk, Ultimate Warrior, Nature Boy, Stone cold, HHH, John Cena, Jet Li, Ip Man, Donnie Yen, and Booker T!! Who have you taken to school? Your little puppy??
Still waiting for you outside of DCBC by the way. Hurry up man....!
what happen, can't post comment?
Brothers and Sisters:
It is not over yet. Pastor Yi is working on something. His resignation letter only said that “he will resign…”, but gave no definite date. It is more like a letter of intent then resignation. Something is still cooking. According to his track records, he must be working on the other pastors and ministers to resign with him and put pressure on the Elders.
About his letter to the elders, he cheated again. He did mention about the sizes of the churches he attainted. He boosted the sizes of the congregations on all three occasions. The interview was taped. Somehow, he did not remember.
God bless DCBC.
整個教會要被綁架多久，要付多少代價才能滿足伊？？
我們一定要團結，投票把他趕出去，絕不能付他一毛錢•••會友的奉獻不能給大騙子，天下大笑話，天下大笑話，基督徒真好騙•
You must be a very wise person to to read a man's intentions so clearly. Before I respond to your comment, answer this: why are there no Bibles in the sanctuary?
Sunday, PPV, come at me bro.
辭職信只是一個幌子，不要被蒙騙! 弟兄姐妹們，一起齊心投票表決，神必在當中掌權，消滅魔鬼使我們互相攻擊和謾罵的伎倆。
禮拜堂擺放聖經，是否使我們更神聖或看起來聖潔? 這是一個愚蠢問題，等於問神可否造一塊自己搬不起的石頭? 呢的就叫執著!
請撫心自問，為什麼教會因你而做成今日的局面? 如果你能真誠回答這個問題，才發表你的問題吧?
READ THE BYLAWS! Its says the senior pastor needs to give a 6months NOTICE when resigning. He cannot give his last day of work because the deacon board needs to decide that FOR HIM.
I am sure he would not even want to stay at a church where people blog about how much they hate him.
How would you feel if someone called YOU the devil?
The church is this way because you idolize power. But if you want to see what real power is, you can meet me face to face this Sunday in the squared circle or the octagon. I'll let you choose.
But before you make your decision, you should wisely consider whether you are prepared to face God's wrath in the form of my fists. Come at me, bro.
UMAD??
Wow...This feels like the story where people were casting stones at the cheating lady and Jesus said "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her." Of couse the people felt shame and walked away, but people at DCBC picked up even more stones to throw at Mr. Yi...lol! What a joke of a church.
Six months is a long time, will he still remember to step down? or will he come up with something new to surprise us? Deacon board should accept his resignation and let him go right away, if that's what he really want.
為什麼一個自稱為神的僕人，總是把 'power, power’ 掛在口邊? 並向人作出挑舋的行為。清醒啦!
to poo face,
we don't cast stone to that prostitude, but then again, we don't ask her to be our senior pastor. Get it right people, we are all sinners, no better or less than the next person, we forgive Yi as a person, but as a senior pastor, that's different story.
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